Baptism
This is something that I’ve been wanting to post about for some time now but never got around to it. Now I’m making time for it.
I grew up in the Baptist church. When I went away for college, I still found myself in a Baptist church. Later, upon graduation from college, I felt the call to move on from my childhood church and began looking elsewhere. I settled at a non-denominational church (though closely tied to the Church of Christ) for a while. Things were great for a while, but eventually some things surfaced in their doctrine that did not seem to fit well with me. Namely, the issue of baptism. At this church, when someone professes their belief in Christ, they are baptized immediately. This is fine with me, though at the Baptist church in which I grew up there was typically a week or two before the actual baptism. However, the part that concerned me is who was performing the baptism. It had always been the senior pastor performing the baptism at the churches I attended, but at the “non-denominational” church, just about anyone could do it - Sunday school teachers, parents, spouses, boyfriends/girlfriends, friends, etc. This really bothered me and eventually, along with other matters, pushed me to look for a different church.
I tried to reconcile this, tried to push aside the Baptist view in which I was raised, to see clearly on the matter without any bias. However, I still have trouble believing that just anybody can perform that baptism. I believe it should be an ordained minister, someone called by God to lead the church, that should performs the baptism.
I discussed this with a missionary friend, and she said she had once struggled with this as well, but pointed out the great commission:
Matthew 28:18-20
Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.
I understand this perspective, but I still can’t say I’m convinced that just anyone can baptize others.
I’m interested in hearing your thoughts and opinions on this matter.
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Apr 15th, 2007 at 12:43:36
I agree with him on the great commission, and I also agree that any Christian can do a baptism…just as they can lead someone to accepting Christ as their Savior. But with that being said, I don’t necessarily think they should. When I worked at Laurel Lake Baptist Camp, and also when I went to Wales for the mission trip, we had to go through training on how to lead someone to Christ. I had to be able to talk about the ABC’s of becoming a Christian and be able to explain this to the person to which I was witnessing. Does that mean that someone who hasn’t had a formal training on how to lead someone to Christ can’t do it…no, but it helps. I feel the same way about baptism. I think that person should have a firm understanding of the meaning of baptism. You don’t want to mislead someone when it comes to their salvation. But if it’s being done in the church, then it’s not likely they are being mislead.
Apr 15th, 2007 at 13:03:35
I am not convinced that anyone can perform a Baptism either. I believe that one needs a strong calling from God and awareness of the Holy Spirit in their lives, before they have the appropriate consciousness and authority to perform such a ritual. I do believe that in extreme circumstances that anyone can perform the act of Baptism with the right intentions.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church states (1256) “The ordinary ministers of Baptism are the bishop and priest and, in the Latin Church, also the deacon. In case of necessity, any person, even someone not baptized, can baptize, if he has the required intention. The intention required is to will to do what the Church does when she baptizes, and to apply the Trinitarian baptismal formula. The Church finds the reason for the possibility in the universal saving will of God and the necessity of Baptism for salvation.”
Though I am a Christian, I do not feel that I have a true and clean heart to Baptize an individual nor the intense fulfillment of the Spirit. There are some laity, who have a strong faith and shine God’s love and Spirit. These are individuals whom I could see baptizing but not general laity like myself.
Apr 15th, 2007 at 16:12:53
A baptism is only valid and real if perfomed by someone with legitimate Priesthood authority. And it can’t be performed by some woman, either (because they’re not allowed to hold the Priesthood). The body must be completly submerged as well. And you need to be baptized by fire, too.
That’s just the way it is, like it or not.
Apr 15th, 2007 at 19:19:26
Women can be priests in the Episcopal Church.
Apr 15th, 2007 at 19:19:53
heh, cookie was still set for Chip instead of me.
Apr 16th, 2007 at 08:08:30
Le me simplify my comments a little. To me, the baptism is more about the person being baptized than the one performing it. The salvation comes from God, and not the person performing the baptism.
Apr 16th, 2007 at 11:03:59
Interesting question.
@Robin
Would one who does not consider themselves a Christian be more capable of baptizing than you would?
@Chris
Like some other issues, this is one that there are different views on even within the Baptist world. One of the most extreme is called “Landmarkism”. Landmark Baptist place a special emphasis on the authority for the baptism, specifically in the administrator. What happens if the administrator’s baptism was invalid? Well, then the baptism performed is invalid. What if this happened a hundred years ago? Oops, we have lots of invalid baptisms. Thus, the Landmarksmade the laughable assertion that traced Baptist churches back to.. John the Baptist.
Asking the question of “what does the Bible say” is the way to go. I think in some ways I would have discomfort in seeing _anyone_ doing a baptism, but part of that could be that I’ve never seen it done that way, as maybe you experienced.
I think it would be harder to maintain that it must be an _ordained_ minister than it would be to simply assert that it must be a minister.
Apr 16th, 2007 at 11:13:10
I’m with Jez. What difference does it make who baptizes the person? The dunker is kind of like a referee in wrestling - you don’t even really need him/her, but it might not feel the same without them. If something is between you and God, then a third person, no matter how or what other people might think of them or what position they may or may not hold, is nothing more than a meaningless third person. Idealistically, for the sake of the person being baptized, it would be really great if the person doing it were someone with who they have a spiritual relationship with, or who they are close to in some way or another.
However, it seems that to imply that someone’s batism is not real because who dunks is just another one of our self centerd, man contrived ways of trying to keep a grip on something we have no control over, or trying to say we have a place of authority in a realm where we truly have none. If we believe that we serve a God who defies man made religion (gospels) and reaches out to thiefs and prostitutes, all the while claiming “the last shall be first” and saying things like “blessed are the poor in spirit,” we should question our own authority at any moment we decide to give ourselves any right to perform such a holy act. It should be a humbling experience for the third person, not one for which they feel entitled by their job (and preacher, again, is not the leader of a church. It’s just another job within it). I don’t really believe in manifest destiny, and I don’t like throwing around phrases like “God apointed leaders.” A real leader will serve and forfeit power, aka Jesus, who would do miracles and ask that they be kept secret, or preach to hordes of people without once saying “I am your messiah” in his sermons to the crowd. If he had all the power, but admitted to none until his time of death, then who are we, who have no power, to act like we have the slightest bit or power at all?
Apr 16th, 2007 at 12:58:35
You know what - that probably all came off a lot more intense than I would have liked. So, to anyone who I offended, I apologize. So, with that said, we all like puppies, so we all have a lot in common. My point, in short, is that we’re all screw ups who have sinned and will again, and we’re all granted grace freely. Therefore, I don’t believe any one person is more or less qualified than another to help someone in a spiritual ritual, because at the end of the day, it’s just that - a ritual. The real salvation and (hopefully) peace comes in the change that precedes the action of baptism. I guess that’s what my heart believes at least. My heart has been wrong before though, so if your heart truly leads you into another direction with the lessons and values God himself has revealed to you through the course of your life, then rock on. Get down with your bad self.
Apr 16th, 2007 at 18:18:43
Good, tempered discussion all. However, something is missing. As Nick pointed out, what I’m trying to get at is “what does the Bible say,” not personal opinions. No one has yet related any verses or other Biblical support for their views… Bryan, I’m especially interested in the Biblical support for your views.
I still don’t think just anyone can baptize someone. I know that I would not feel comfortable baptizing someone. I think the Holy Spirit plays a part in leading those who should be baptizers. Again, I have no support for any view as of now, which is why I’m fishing for the Biblical views on this.
Apr 16th, 2007 at 20:30:02
Well, I’ve been looking for scripture that describes who can perform a baptism, but all I can find along that lines is the great commission. I did find a website that had some interesting information and verses that might help. I can’t say I agree with anything else on that site (I didn’t look at anything else), but this page looks to be ok. Oh, and I’m glad to see James agrees with me…we’ve disagreed on a few issues in the past
Mark 16:15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. 16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
http://www.biblestudylessons.com/cgi-bin/topics/baptism-who-performs.php
Apr 16th, 2007 at 23:46:43
Chris, a lot can be said on this topic, and, a lot has been said. It’s a debate that’s been going on for centuries, and it’s going to continue until Christians inherit the new heaven and earth. I’m not going to share my view because it’s been brought up by a couple of people already. What I would encourage you to do is some personal research–bible study. Go back to the basics. First, get an exhaustive concordance and read not just the verses where baptism shows up, but read the chapter. Oh what the heck, read the whole book. Look out for a couple of things–the context, and the characters:Their positions and circumstances. Second, get a bible dictionary and encyclopedia of bible words. They will help you with the origin and true meaning(s) of baptism.
It is a lot of work, but i believe it’s going to pay off at the end. I pray God gives you understanding and a sense of peace as you seek clarity on this issue. Let me know if you need help with some of the resources mentioned above. Take care bro.
Apr 17th, 2007 at 08:14:52
Here are some verses. In my five minutes of research (stellar, I know) I can’t find anything about who can and cannot baptize. By the way, I’m glad Jeremy and I found an internet issue that we took the same side on.
It’s been a long time coming, my friend.
Hebrews 6: 1-3 (this verse says “let us,” and I’m assuming he is addressing the entire church here, not just the religious leaders, but again, we all know where assumption lands us), Galations 3:26-28, Acts 8:12-13 & 36-38. So la de da. 2 cents, worth almost every penny.
Apr 18th, 2007 at 09:29:49
I have to agree with Chris on this one. I believe that a baptism should be performed by the leader of the church; pastor or priest. My opinion is that a baptism is a sacred and blessed event that should be held in reverance. Hence the act being performed by someone of a higher spirtual standard, a person called to be a shepard by God. As for the biblical stance on the issue, I have found, unless I missed something, that baptism where performed by either the disciples or one of the apostles in the early church, of course excluding John the Baptist. Those individuals, ordained by God to start the preaching of the gospel, the early church pastors if you will. As far as a women performing the baptism, I personally think that women can be called of God and if they are I don’t have an issue with that.
Apr 18th, 2007 at 20:28:03
Kwadwo,
I have done personal research and talked to God about my beliefs on baptism. That’s why I stand where I stand now and have concerns with being involved with a church where the contrary is done. I wanted to get some additional opinions on the matter, though - not to form my own opinion, but to get a different perspective, both personal and Biblical. I’m not judging others on their views, as it does seem to be an open-ended issue, but still wanted to see what others thought and could support about it.
Sean,
For the most part, you state my views pretty well.
Apr 19th, 2007 at 01:48:35
Here’s what I’m going to go with:
The Bible never PREscribes who should baptize.
There are a couple of places where it DEscribes who baptizes. Mostly references to baptism are commands or passive voice (they “were baptized”).
We see John baptizing Jesus, Philip baptizing a eunuch that he saw and shared the the gospel with, and Paul referenced being glad he only baptized a few folks in a certain place, and mentioned a couple he baptized.
Perhaps the most interesting question is about Philip’s baptism. Philip was one of the first deacons. Does he have some role that has more authority than a deacon? Maybe - he was traveling around “proclaiming the Christ” (NIV). But actually that applied to a whole group of people — the ones who were fleeing persecution. So, persecution sets in, Christians flee and tell people about Jesus. Philip is one of them, a eunuch accepts Christ and he baptizes him really quickly.
If we’re just looking at cases where the Bible talks about the actual act of baptism, and looking to see who did it — this is about it.
There’s certainly more to consider though.
Apr 28th, 2007 at 22:19:22
Nobody bites??
We’ve brought Scripture into the discussion, isn’t this at least part of the research we were talking about?
Apr 29th, 2007 at 12:15:21
You make a valid point in your previous comment, Nick - about describing, not prescribing. I still can’t feel completely comfortable with just the average Joe performing a baptism, especially if his heart and mind is not right with the Lord, or he hasn’t been called by the Holy Spirit to perform the baptism. Ultimately, only the Lord knows that, though, and even church officials themselves may not be in the right state at the moment of the baptism. Thinking about it beyond the actual baptism - is a person truly saved if their baptizer isn’t up to par? Yes, I think they are, so maybe in the end, it truly doesn’t matter who does the baptism, as long as it’s done.
May 1st, 2007 at 00:22:49
I would say that it sounds like some of your standards are pretty subjective - but I think that’s what you’re getting to at the end of your last comment.
I guess one might be able to make a case that the Bible only describes deacons and apostles as being those who baptize. So maybe pastors shouldn’t be able to - just deacons.